Wednesday, January 11, 2006

What if there is no Rapture of the Church prior to the Tribulation?

This is the question that has absolutely consumed me for the last week or so. A very dear friend of mine (and brother in Christ) let me borrow a book that he had read entitled, “The Rapture Question Answered: Plain and Simple.” In this book, the author makes the case that the rapture (the catching away) of all true believers by Jesus Christ at His Second Coming is not prior to the tribulation period, as many scholars teach, but rather is somewhere in the middle of the last half of the 7 year tribulation period. It is a position that he calls “Pre-Wrath” position, a reference to the wrath of God that will occur in the end times.

All my life, I have been taught that the Pretribulational rapture position was the most biblical position because it was based on taking the Bible literally and not symbolically or allegorically. And with End-Times teachings and Prophecy being so hard to begin with, I have never really fully studied it for myself, but just accepted the word of those I trusted to be men of God and good Bible scholars.

Even in seminary, we were taught all about the different positions… postmillennialism verses amillennialism verses historical premillennialism verses dispensational premillennialism…
Post-trib verses Mid-trib verses Pre-trib… But in all my studies, I don’t recall ever once being told about the Pre-Wrath Rapture Position. And I must admit that before reading this book Matthew 24 never made a lot sense to me; I couldn’t figure how it all worked. Because in that teaching, Jesus begins to tell his disciples about the end times. And in that teaching, He talks about different signs in the heavens and the revealing of the man of sin (the Anti-Christ), the great persecution, and the great falling away (the apostasy of the church), but then in the middle He talks about something that sounds like the rapture. Now, like I said, that never made sense to me before, but now it does. In fact, its making more and more sense to me the more I read it.

What if the rapture of the church isn’t at the beginning, but rather near the end? What if we are destined to go through the hour of great testing at the hands of the Anti-Christ (assuming of course we’re still alive when all this happens)? What if all of us who claim to be God’s people will suffer terrible persecution; a persecution so bad that Jesus says this about it. “For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.” (Matt.24:21)

And to be honest, it makes sense… if Christians all over the world are suffering persecution right now... being jailed, beaten, tortured, and killed… why then should we think that we here in America will somehow escape all these horrors and more? It is very, very sobering to think about. Will I be strong enough to withstand the persecutions for the name of Christ? What will happen to my family? Will I have to witness unspeakable horrors upon them?

I haven’t come to my own conclusions yet… but it is definitely worth researching and studying! Obviously God wants us to be equipped and prepared… He wants us to know… otherwise why would He have ever given it to us? Is the teaching about the things to come really so hard, complicated, confused, and hidden or have we (man) made it this way? Could it be this plain and simple? If it is… may God’s grace be abundantly with us… b/c we will need it!!

11 comments:

Drea said...

Thats pretty scary. Part of me hope that the rapture is before the trib.... but if not I guess your right... we better prepare ourselves! Not many people can stand firm right now and say "I'd die for Christ." and know 100% they'd do it.

I know the questions pass through my head... like "What if they were going to kill Caleb if you didnt deny Christ.." talk about a hard situation...

At this point in my life I'm not sure I can say fully that I wouldnt deny Christ.
I just dont know!
I'd hope I would be able to stand firm...

Tidy Bowl said...

I've heard a couple different ideas on this. I've read the first two or three books in the "Left Behind" series, which are pre-trib. One of my old pastors (incidentally, a man whom I have absolutely no respect for, but he was a pastor nonetheless) preached that believing in pre-trib meant believing God would "get me out of here before it gets bad". Personally, I don't know. I've thought about it some, but I've never come to any conclusions on it. I don't know how important it is to know, though. I'm content to not know. The Bible says Jesus will ocme "like a thief in the night" and "the day and the hour unknown". So I just try to grow as close to Him as I can in this finite world. He may or may not return during my lifetime, but either way I hope to be able to stand before God and hear him say "Well done, good and faithful servant". Before my life is over, Jesus might ask me to serve him by spreading his word overseas. So regardless of the rapture, I might still be challenged in this lifetime to give my life up for Christ. Or such a challenge could be presented to me here in America.

I don't know what the future holds. I don't have any answers to this question. I just want to be the best for Jesus that I can be.

Brother D said...

One of the things I think we can all agree on is that depending on what a person's axe to grind is, they can try to make the bible say whatever they want it to say. Fortunately for us, the bible was not written for Ph.Ds or scholars but for those who approach it like "little children" so much for symbolism.....When I look at Luke 21:36 Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man." Where it tells us to specificallt pray that we may be able to escape something really bad thats about to happen, I can only conclude that I should do exactly that, pray that we may be able to escape this really bad things that's about to happen...Rev3:10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth. Come on, this is as plain and simple as it gets in my mind. Yea, I know there are those people who are bound and determined to bend twist and otherwise make the Word of God say something that it does'nt clearly say, but you know, that's why I have my own Bible and the Holy Spirit living inside, to allow us to discern these things for ourselves. Noah was'nt left to drown in the judgement that came on the world during his time was he? Lot was'nt left in Sodom when God rained fire down in judgement on it was he? Where in the bible does it say we as believers are appointed to suffer under God's wrath? Persecution suffering adn worldly tribulation have been our lot from the very beginning but this is totally different from God's wrath. Mid and post trib advocates argue their hearts out to prove that we as god's children should suffer under god's wrath during that horrible time of judgement but our Father's former decisions under the same circumstances argue strongly against them. Cheers~D

Travis or P.T. said...

DBull...
That is exactly the author's point in his book. That we aren't appointed to wrath, but the entire tribulation period is not the wrath of God... part of it is the wrath of Satan. The wrath of God will begin sometime in the last 3.5 years.

He also makes the point using Noah and Lot... that when Noah entered the ark, then judgment fell. The same for Lot... when Lot and his family were taken out of the city, that very day the wrath of God fell. HE makes the same point with the rapture in Matt.24.

Worth looking into I think.

Tidy Bowl said...

Travis,
The scriptures I keep coming back to when I consider the rapure are the multitude that say "we will not know" when Jesus returns, or "the day and the hour (will be) unknown", etc.

So many people in the church are trying to predict when Jesus will return. "I think he will return within our lifetimes", "I think he will return within the next century", etc. I am reminded of the people who predicted Jesus would return on New Year's Day, 2000. (Y2K) Of course he didn't!

Literally since Jesus was crucified, people have been saying "Jesus will return within our lifetime". Maybe Jesus won't return until we quit trying to predict when He will return.

Maybe we're not supposed to know when Jesus returns. Maybe we're not supposed to know when we will be raptured. Maybe we're just supposed to trust God, that Jesus will come back at the right time. In the meantime, maybe we're just supposed to approach Jesus like a child and be the best for Him that we can be. Maybe we're just supposed to wait and be ready, always ready.

Travis or P.T. said...

Tidy,
I agree with you to a degree b/c Jesus does say that... but in Matt.24, before that verse about no one knowing the day or the hour, He gives about 35 verses of signs and signals that the end is near... i.e. when you see this stuff happening.. get ready!

And then over in 1 Thes.5, the Apostle Paul, right after the famous rapture passage, begins to talk about the timing of all these things again, and he does say that the day of the Lord so comes a thief in the night. But then in vs.4, he says something very interesting and curious, he says,... "But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief."

Now, I don't believe in date setting either; I even get nervous when people try to guess the year or something. But it is pretty clear that Matt.24 is absolutely filled with things to keep our eyes open for. So, if we weren't suppose to have even a clue... then why did Jesus tell us all these things?

Tidy Bowl said...

Travis,
I guess my thing isn't so much that we're "not supposed to have a clue" as much as, it seems like an awful lot of people (both Christian and non) are pretty obsessed with the apocalypse, the rapture, the end of the world, etc. (think Apocalypse Now) And I'm just wondering, maybe if we read the Bible and it's not clear to us when Jesus is going to return, maybe that's okay. I mean, maybe God gave us some signs to watch for, but I don't think God ever intended for us to obsess over what will happen soon (because that's what Jesus said - it would be soon). Kind of a "live in the moment" thing. Not that we should never think about it, but it bothers me how much some people obsess over it.

I'm not an expert. And I don't have a handy-dandy Bible college degree. This is just some of my ponderings in my own time of Bible study.

Tidy Bowl said...

Travis,
You don't sound crazy at all.
I think you hit on an important point, too. We're coming from very different perspectives... You are a husband, father, and the leader of a family. I'm 22, just graduated, unmarried (I don't even have a boyfriend), basically on my own. So the events of the trib would probably affect you more than they would affect me, because you have to watch out for your wife and son, and I... well, for lack of a better word, I don't.

And I will confess, the trib is something I've never studied in-depth. I've only been a devoted Christian for 3 years, and I've spent a great deal of that time focusing on the gospels.

Like I said, I'm not an expert. I'm just one of God's children.

Drea said...

Hun we can just move back to your dads. Live in the silo haha.
Kidding ;-) Love you honey,
Drea

I was gonna post more but your beautiful tempermental son Calebs just woke up! ;-)

BUT WE GOT A DATE NIGHT 2NITE! WOO HOO!!!!!!

Crawley said...

Travis, I think this is a great post. I've never actually thought about this myself and like you just accepted what other, more knowlegeable Christians told me about the rapture. This definately deserves more study. Thanks for sharing!

If this is the case and we have to suffer through the tribulation (or part of it) then this gives me a whole new perspective on the Christians in China and other countries today. What can we learn from them that we may need later if we were to see the tribulation? How much more should we be praying for strength (thy will be done) and deliverance for ourselves and those who are under persecution now?

I also think we should learn as much as we can about what the Bible says about this time period in case we were to see the tribulation. Knowing the signs of the end times would be a great witnessing tool so others can be saved before the rapture.

Now I want to ask my mom about what my dad thought about this and see if she has any of his books that may be related to this topic. (When he passed away my mom gave all his books from his library to the pastor that was taking over. I wish now that I could have had access to them before she gave them away. What a great resource that was!)

Travis or P.T. said...

Becrall...
Thanks for the comment. I agree with you totally. I also have a new appreciation for our brothers and sisters in China and various other countries who are indeed suffering. And thats a great point about learning from them... I don't know why I hadn't thought of that.